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Post by Francess on Mar 30, 2009 16:44:41 GMT
Hi. I wonder if you can help me with a question that came up at school? My English teacher told me that if a title or piece of text isn't black in colour it can not be in bold font. But on a computer I could be typing in blue and I could still put it into bold. But she says it must be black to be technically bold. I wonder if she is strictly right. Thanks!
from frances. :P
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Post by Paul Doherty on Mar 30, 2009 18:45:23 GMT
What an interesting question, Frances. I haven't heard the theory before, but it does make some sense -- some references say that boldness is a change in the "blackness" of the printing. It certainly dates from the days when metal type was used, and the metal fonts would be produced in normal ("Roman"), bold and italic versions. Black ink was overwhelmingly the norm, so bold type would be blacker (it held more ink).
But the ink would have had to be black, and a bold font would still be bold whatever colour ink was used. So, on balance, I'd probably tend to doubt your teacher. I'd love to know what makes him/her think that, and whether she/he has any proof. Quite possibly it was once true, but I'd like to know more. I realise it's not always easy to ask teachers to prove what they say, though!
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frankie
Bronze
Can't wait till Motor GP!!
Posts: 89
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Post by frankie on Mar 30, 2009 19:01:50 GMT
THANKS!! ;D I knew I was right. I did ask why she thought that and she told me that in Latin, bold means black. But I still didn't think she was right. Thank you for confirming it, it's been bugging me for ages. Oh, and by the way I've joined the forum as Frankie, because it all seems very interesting, but I won't know much because I'm only in year 9 at school. Hopefully I'll learn more from talking to you peeps. lol. Thanks again.
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Post by Alan Palmer on Mar 30, 2009 20:14:50 GMT
We do have at least two experts in typography here, so if I were you, Frankie, I'd come back in a day or so.
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Post by Pete on Mar 30, 2009 21:14:28 GMT
THANKS!! ;D I knew I was right. I did ask why she thought that and she told me that in Latin, bold means black. But I still didn't think she was right. Thank you for confirming it, it's been bugging me for ages. Oh, and by the way I've joined the forum as Frankie, because it all seems very interesting, but I won't know much because I'm only in year 9 at school. Hopefully I'll learn more from talking to you peeps. lol. Thanks again. Welcome to the forum, Frankie. We look forward to learning from you, too.
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Post by Twoddle on Mar 30, 2009 21:48:13 GMT
Your teacher may well be correct, Frankie, but the Online Etymology Dictionary doesn't give a Latin origin for "bold". It says: "O.E. beald (W.Saxon), bald (Anglian) "bold, brave," from P.Gmc. *balthaz (cf. O.H.G. bald "bold, swift," in names such as Archibald, Leopold, Theobald; Goth. balþei "boldness;" O.N. ballr "frightful, dangerous"), perhaps from PIE *bhol-to-, suffixed form of *bhel- "to blow, swell" (see bole). O.Fr./Prov. baut, It. baldo "bold, daring, fearless" are Gmc. loan-words."
The Latin word for "black" was "niger", and the only other Latin words I can find that hint at blackness are "livor", "pullus" and "infusco". I get the impression that your teacher may have been bluffing somewhat.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Mar 30, 2009 22:26:52 GMT
Yes, welcome Frankie.
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Post by Verbivore on Mar 30, 2009 22:35:41 GMT
Frankie: Welcome to the forum. Your teacher is talking a load of old cods. I am a typographer and have never, in 30 years of typesetting, come across your teacher's notion of bold = black. That said, there are fonts called black - and they are commonly different from bold (which is usually a lighter-weight font than black). Ink colour is irrelevant. A common example: there are Arial regular, Arial bold, and Arial black; the black is almost double-bold. If I use Arial black with red ink, it is still Arial black. Merry typesetting!
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Post by Paul Doherty on Mar 31, 2009 1:23:29 GMT
VV, interesting. Would the fact that a double-bold font might be called "Black" indicate there is at least a slight link between blackness and boldness in typographical tradition?
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Post by Verbivore on Mar 31, 2009 1:45:23 GMT
VV, interesting. Would the fact that a double-bold font might be called "Black" indicate there is at least a slight link between blackness and boldness in typographical tradition? Paul: There may well be an historical connection, but I can find no reference to it in any of my type books and manuals. A possibly related term is blackletter: this is also commonly (but mistakenly) called "gothic", and covers a range of typefaces that we might recognise as "ye olde newspaper masthead" type or pre-reform German type, where the lowercase "s" sometimes looks rather like an "f". Here is an example: Blackmoor (but with a "modern" "s" style).
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frankie
Bronze
Can't wait till Motor GP!!
Posts: 89
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Post by frankie on Mar 31, 2009 6:44:24 GMT
Thanks all you guys! I will tell her that today, I've had many arguments with people over this. Thanks for helping me. Oh and thanks for all the welcomes!
;D Speak to y'all soon!
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Post by Pete on Mar 31, 2009 8:20:50 GMT
Thanks all you guys! I will tell her that today Is that wise? Or, if my question is too late, how did your teacher react?
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Post by Twoddle on Mar 31, 2009 10:08:07 GMT
That's most enlightening, Verbivore. I've noticed Arial Black among the fonts on my PC and wondered vaguely why it was there, but it never occurred to me that it was a form of super-bold and was available in several colours! It's rather the reverse of Henry Ford's statement about his cars being available in any colour, as long as it was black.
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Post by Dave on Mar 31, 2009 14:59:55 GMT
The greatest line from all shakespeares plays! (In my opinion.) Welcome, frankie. In your tag line: You may want to capitalize the old guy and slip in an apostrophe for the possessive!
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frankie
Bronze
Can't wait till Motor GP!!
Posts: 89
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Post by frankie on Mar 31, 2009 15:30:44 GMT
Thanks Dave I will change that, sometimes these things just skip my eyes when I read over them too fast. Oh yes, Pete you're too late ;D But is cool, she doesn't mind she was quite interested actually. She agreed that in everyday life that I was correct but she told me (and I think this is stupid.) that on a GCSE exam for something to be bold it must be in black ink. GCSEs are so complicated! Well they are for me! All the marking and stuff is really weird. Anyway that's why she thought that but she doesn't know why on an exam it has to be black ink.
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