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Post by Vadim on Jun 24, 2009 21:36:20 GMT
Hi all,
Just a quick one that's been troubling me.
When talking about children, where the hell does the apostrophe go? I should probably know this by now but I'm too lazy to search through posts to find the answers.
When talking about more than one child, is it "childrens cloths" etc (because childrens in the plural sense is always possessive) or does it have an apostrophe?
Thanks.
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Post by Twoddle on Jun 24, 2009 21:43:41 GMT
It's the same as for other possessives, Vadim: the apostrophe goes immediately after the "possessor(s)". "Children" are the possessors, so the possessive form is "children's". It's a bit confusing at first glance because most plurals end in "s", but not all do. Men - men's Women - women's Children - children's Brethren - brethren's Sheep - sheep's.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 29, 2009 0:22:54 GMT
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Post by Pete on Jun 29, 2009 20:21:38 GMT
I know what most of us would refer to as 'correct' English, but Vadim makes a valid point. Would phrases like "childrens clothes" ever actually be misunderstood? Is there any potential ambiguity?
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Post by Vadim on Jun 30, 2009 10:53:02 GMT
I know what most of us would refer to as 'correct' English, but Vadim makes a valid point. Would phrases like "childrens clothes" ever actually be misunderstood? Is there any potential ambiguity? This is kind of what I'm getting at, Pete. I can't think (although I'm sure someone on the forum will!) of a single case in which "children(')s" is used when it isn't the possessive. This is probably true of other possessive-onlys, but my brain's not in gear right now.
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Post by Dave on Jul 1, 2009 1:09:39 GMT
When we speak, children's and childrens sound the same--how do you know which one the speaker is using? The same is true of many homonyms/homophones: for instance, there, their, and they're sound alike. Until I write it out for you, you can't tell if I've used the wrong one in the context.
Children is already a plural word, so to pluralize it again, still meaning several "childs," is redundant. To pluralize it only as a word, such as "You have too many childrens in this sentence," meaning the the word children has been used too many times (for whatever reason!) in this sentence, would be one use of childrens without the apostrophe. If I were typing it, I'd probably italicize children but not the s. For speaking, some kind of inflection may work, or you'd just have to rely on context and your hearer's intelligence.
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Post by Alan Palmer on Jul 1, 2009 6:27:40 GMT
I regularly pass a branch of Matalan and am annoyed by the sign outside:
LADIES MENS KIDS HOMEWARE
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 1, 2009 8:40:47 GMT
I regularly pass a branch of Matalan and am annoyed by the sign outside:
LADIES MENS KIDS HOMEWARE Could be worse? Ladieswear (OK), Menswear (OK), Kidswear (OK), Homewear (!). My first memory of menswear is from childhood, and I thought then that it declared men swear.
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Post by Geoff on Jul 1, 2009 11:58:19 GMT
In speech, does anyone make a distinction between they're and there and their? I sometimes wonder if they're is/should be pronounced differently.
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 1, 2009 13:07:33 GMT
In speech, does anyone make a distinction between they're and there and their? I sometimes wonder if they're is/should be pronounced differently. In formal register (e.g. giving an address, a training session) I'm inclined to pronounce they're distinctly from there or their. The latter two come out the same regardless of register.
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Post by suvvern on Jul 1, 2009 13:43:20 GMT
I pronounce all of these three words in exactly the same way.
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Post by Pete on Jul 2, 2009 12:11:10 GMT
I regularly pass a branch of Matalan and am annoyed by the sign outside:
LADIES MENS KIDS HOMEWARE Could be KIDZ!
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Post by Pete on Jul 2, 2009 12:11:33 GMT
I pronounce all of these three words in exactly the same way. Me, too.
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Post by Geoff on Jul 2, 2009 22:16:56 GMT
I pronounce all of these three words in exactly the same way. I probably do, too; but I just wonder about they're. If I deliberately try to pronounce it differently from there or their, it always comes out as they are, with a short, rather than a long, are ( like theyar).
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 2, 2009 23:48:52 GMT
[...] If I deliberately try to pronounce it differently from there or their, it always comes out as they are, with a short, rather than a long, are ( like theyar). Exactly! Almost like a hillbilly stereotype drawl.
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