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Post by amanda on Jul 8, 2012 21:15:37 GMT
I'm sure this has been discussed recently, but I can't find the thread. I would be grateful for clarification:
Which is correct, or are they both acceptable? If I were rich/ if I was rich...?
Thanks.
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Post by Twoddle on Jul 8, 2012 22:56:42 GMT
It's the subjunctive mood, Amanda, because you're putting forward a hypothesis that's unlikely to be factual. "If I were ..." or "Were I ..." is correct.
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Post by Dave on Jul 9, 2012 6:09:00 GMT
From Fiddler on the Roof: "If I were a rich man ..." |
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Post by hubertus on Jul 9, 2012 6:19:02 GMT
The use of subjunctive is correct but its usage is somewhat obsolescent.
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Post by Twoddle on Jul 9, 2012 10:26:49 GMT
The use of subjunctive is correct but its usage is somewhat obsolescent. True. Another example of ignorance changing the language. |
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Post by hubertus on Jul 9, 2012 11:32:04 GMT
The use of subjunctive is correct but its usage is somewhat obsolescent. True. Another example of ignorance changing the language. Sounds a bit pejorative to describe it as ignorance. In Yorkshire, the phrase "I were going out ..." is a widely accepted dialectical form. And I don't think it would be analysed as the subjunctive replacing the indicative! ;D |
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Post by Twoddle on Jul 9, 2012 15:10:14 GMT
True. Another example of ignorance changing the language. Sounds a bit pejorative to describe it as ignorance. I Yorkshire, the phrase "I were going out ..." is a widely accepted dialectical form. And I don't think it would be analysed as the subjunctive replacing the indicative! ;D Regardless of how it might have sounded, it was a literal, not a pejorative, remark (and we shouldn't let political correctness take precedence over facts). Let's analyse it a bit further. The reason why people say "If I was ... " seems pretty obvious: it sounds wrong to say "If I were ... " because we use the indicative mood far more than the subjunctive and we've all been told that "I were" is the incorrect use of the indicative mood, past tense. It probably wasn't explained at school that that proscription didn't apply to the subjunctive mood (and it probably wasn't explained at school that the subjunctive mood even existed), so the obvious but erroneous assumption is that "I were" is incorrect in all instances. But how can "If I was ..." be correct? "Was" is the past tense, and we're referring to a hypothetical present or future - definitely not to the past. It makes no literal sense to say "If I was you ... "; even if we were referring to a past event we'd say "If I had been you ... ", not "If I was you ... ". It's a pity that the subjunctive is on the wane owing, as I maintain, to ignorance. I'll continue to use it, and to register mentally the incorrectness of "If I was ... " whenever I hear or read it. |
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Post by hubertus on Jul 9, 2012 15:48:30 GMT
Twoddle, I wasn't accusing you of using the word ignorance in a pejorative way. I did believe you were using it accurately and advisedly from the start.
My point about the Yorkshire dialect use of 'were' for first person past indicative is that this is received English in parts of Yorkshire. The spoken language is learned primarily from peers and parents, not formally at school. I pass no value judgement on the use of 'were' or 'was' in this instance.
I don't use the term 'political correctness' except ironically, as in, for instance, 'political correctness gone mad'.
I don't understand what it is supposed to mean.
;D
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Post by amanda on Jul 9, 2012 19:22:10 GMT
Thank you! All clear now.  |
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