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Post by Verbivore on Jul 18, 2017 23:30:42 GMT
Vv says, "Oz officially employs Cambridge style". I am all for the Cambridge style but officially? What makes it official, please? Oz has two primary reference dictionaries – the Macquarie and the Australian Oxford – and both (yes, even the Oxford!) promote the ~ise / ~isation suffixes over the z style, as does the Australian Government Publishing Service's Style Manual. Government document-writers/editors are required to use the s style, making it rather "official". (Of course, some such folk have never heard of the Style Guide and so use the non-recommended z forms – but one can't win all the time.) The s style is taught in government schools (at least those where the teachers are not ignorant of all things orthographical). We have one other reference, the Australian National Dictionary (a project of the Australian National Dictionary Centre – a collaboration between the Australian National University in Canberra and Oxford Dictionaries); it makes no recommendation per se, but shows that the suffix, in Oz writings, has evolved from the z form in the 1800s and early 1900s to the s form in more recent times. The AND is not used as an official reference or standard.
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 18, 2017 23:32:18 GMT
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 18, 2017 23:40:33 GMT
This morning I noticed that my avatar had been replaced by a graphic from Photobucket (where my old avatar was stored and linked from). This is because Photobucket recently unilaterally changed its terms of service: If one wishes to link a Photobucket entry to any other site, one now has to pay almost $400 per year. Thousands of Photobucket users are up in arms about this major change to a longstanding arrangement and have cancelled their accounts – as have I (after I deleted all 98 albums and 9,243 photos). Now my avatar has reverted to the Proboards default. I'd hate to be the person/s receiving all the nasty messages from disgruntled users. Mine (and I doubt that it was alone in the sentiment) suggested to Photobucket that it "go autofornicate".
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Jul 22, 2017 17:46:37 GMT
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Jul 24, 2017 22:00:20 GMT
From time to time, we have talked about the acceptability of the singular pronoun "they". This article uses it extensively with the laudable and deliberate intention of masking the sex of the individual in question. It feels very ugly but I think that any likely rewording might be equally ugly. The author, James Gallagher, was clearly aware of the problem and "they" wasn't an accidental usage. The obvious possibility might have been to use "it" but I feel this would have been inappropriate for a nine-year-old child. One sympathises with the writer, or at least I do. As was pointed out, the original link was incorrect. It is now correct.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40703306
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 24, 2017 23:15:45 GMT
LJH: That link took me to a story headed "'Most expensive' beach hut up for sale at Mudeford Spit". Not a they to be found.
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Post by Geoff on Jul 25, 2017 4:29:19 GMT
Likewise, LJH. Doesn't appear to be the story you intended.
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Post by Dave Miller on Jul 25, 2017 6:58:02 GMT
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Jul 25, 2017 8:59:55 GMT
Sorry about that folks. It was not the story I intended but Dave was quite correct. 😥
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Jul 25, 2017 9:08:17 GMT
I have found out how to correct the wrong link. It is now corrected. Thank you, Dave.
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Post by Twoddle on Jul 25, 2017 11:05:15 GMT
I've always found the use of "they" and "their" as singulars to be unfortunate, and in this example they're downright ugly. Phrases such as, "A nine-year-old infected with HIV at birth has spent most of their life without needing any treatment... ", and, "They have since been off drugs for eight-and-a-half years ... ", are nonsensical when referring to one person.
If the author really didn't know the sex of the child, "his or her" and "He or she", although not the perfect solution, would have been considerably preferable to "their" and "They".
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Jul 25, 2017 22:41:35 GMT
Twoddle said, >If the author really didn't know the sex of the child, "his or her" and "He or she", although not the perfect solution, would have been considerably preferable to "their" and "They".<
I think, Twoddle, that the author was properly and valiantly trying to hide the sex of the child rather than not knowing it — in order to promote anonymity.
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Post by Twoddle on Jul 25, 2017 22:57:14 GMT
Twoddle said, >If the author really didn't know the sex of the child, "his or her" and "He or she", although not the perfect solution, would have been considerably preferable to "their" and "They".< I think, Twoddle, that the author was properly and valiantly trying to hide the sex of the child rather than not knowing it — in order to promote anonymity. That's possible, LJH, although stating the child's sex would have narrowed down the million upon million of possible identities by only 50%. There would still have been many millions left.
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Post by Verbivore on Jul 25, 2017 23:37:49 GMT
A friend who had recently given birth and was out shopping with new baby aboard was asked by an acquaintance on the street: "What are they called?". My pedantic friend replied: "There's only one, and she is called Eliza".
What are the options for an enquirer not knowing the baby's sex?
What is he called? (inappropriate in this instance) What is s/he called? (doesn't work verbally) What is it called? (offensive to some) What are they called? (but there's only one) What is they called? (ugh! – the is is correct for one baby but not appropriate with they)
Or one could just ask: "Boy or girl?".
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Post by Dave Miller on Jul 26, 2017 3:34:35 GMT
It's easy to blame the speaker, when what's at fault is the language (in that it doesn't provide what we need).
Yet ... language, as a tool, is created and developed by its users. We could invent some way out of the problem. That's happening, and the winning gambit is the "they" method. Perhaps it will become quite normal, once we've heard it enough - like "I'm right, aren't I?", which has a similar problem of number.
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