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Post by Little Jack Horner on Oct 18, 2017 23:10:44 GMT
Since Dave and Vv both got "travesty" wrong, I admit that so did I.
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Post by Verbivore on Oct 19, 2017 6:29:45 GMT
Since Dave and Vv both got "travesty" wrong, I admit that so did I. At least my (common) usage of the term a travesty of justice has always been correct. It's just that I've misextrapolated travesty to other meanings. travesty: an absurd or grotesque misrepresentation, a parody, or grossly inferior imitation.
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Post by Twoddle on Oct 19, 2017 9:44:17 GMT
Several senior policemen in Northern Ireland are currently under investigation for something or other.
"The chief constable, deputy chief constable and other officers completely refute the allegations made against them ... ". No, they don't; as the quiz points out, to refute the allegations they'd have to disprove them, and they've not yet done so.
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Post by Dave Miller on Oct 19, 2017 11:42:50 GMT
Yes, Twod! I read that article and thought "you mean you WILL refute them".
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Post by Twoddle on Oct 22, 2017 21:44:34 GMT
One of my gripes is the phrase, "There's a question mark over ...". Wrong in two ways; but today I heard a twit of a news reporter go even further with, "There's a bit of a question mark over ...". Which bit, I wonder? The dot, perhaps, or could it be the curly part?
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Post by SusanB on Oct 23, 2017 8:12:37 GMT
One of my gripes is the phrase, "There's a question mark over ...". Wrong in two ways; but today I heard a twit of a news reporter go even further with, "There's a bit of a question mark over ...". Which bit, I wonder? The dot, perhaps, or could it be the curly part? I think it would be the curly part. And I think it would be hovering over the middle of the question. Otherwise it just wouldn't make sense!
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Oct 23, 2017 12:33:21 GMT
>> "There's a question mark over ...". <<
Is this not merely a metaphor? Maybe not a particularly elegant example but no worse than “my teacher is a dragon”.
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Post by Dave Miller on Oct 23, 2017 15:56:54 GMT
>> "There's a question mark over ...". << Is this not merely a metaphor? It depends on how the sentence continued.
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Post by Twoddle on Oct 23, 2017 17:27:13 GMT
>> "There's a question mark over ...". << Is this not merely a metaphor? Maybe not a particularly elegant example but no worse than “my teacher is a dragon”. Possibly it was a metophor, LJH, but when metaphors are constantly over-used, as this one is, people no longer realise that they're metaphors and they start to use them as standard. Then they become an integral part of the language without any thought being given to the fact that they make no sense. Another example is "literally", which is used metaphorically so often that it's in danger of having the precise opposite meaning of its actual one.
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Oct 23, 2017 18:00:45 GMT
Or maybe it’s just an idiom like “raining cats and dogs” ? Which makes sense, does it not (literally!)?
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Post by Dave Miller on Oct 23, 2017 21:15:49 GMT
I think if we said something like "there's a question mark over the new proposal”, that would be a metaphorical way of saying that the proposal has uncertainties.
However, what Twod is reacting to (I assume) is the bad habit of saying “question mark”, when the speaker means “question”. For example, "the changes to the bus service raised question marks from the public”, or “there's still a question mark as to affordability”.
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Post by Twoddle on Oct 24, 2017 9:20:47 GMT
I think if we said something like "there's a question mark over the new proposal”, that would be a metaphorical way of saying that the proposal has uncertainties. However, what Twod is reacting to (I assume) is the bad habit of saying “question mark”, when the speaker means “question”. For example, "the changes to the bus service raised question marks from the public”, or “there's still a question mark as to affordability”. Yes, the use of "question mark" - or more often "question mark over" - has all but replaced the word "question". I rarely hear the latter from journalists and commentators; it's as if the former is the correct version. "There's a question mark over Joe Bloggs's future with the club." No there isn't: there's a question about Joe Blogg's future with the club. Not only is a question-mark a piece of written punctuation and not a question, it's never positioned "over" anything; even as a metaphor the phrase is nonsensical.
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Post by Verbivore on Oct 24, 2017 13:47:52 GMT
The "question mark over" piece of pudder* is management / PR trying to sound intelligent, or perhaps poetic (a double fail!).
* pudder: used by Sir Ernest Gowers, of the Plain Words series of books, as he described the meaningless "noise" in the language of Britain's officialdom. He could "de-pudder" a business or bureaucratic letter by stripping it of meaningless or convoluted verbiage and reducing it to half its length while clarifying the message
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Post by Little Jack Horner on Oct 24, 2017 18:32:30 GMT
Two things I heartily dislike:—
— the phrase “up close and personal”
— and the inevitability of the word “forever” following a sentence such as “The way we [ do something ] is about to change … “
I expect I will think of other things I dislike but one should avoid too much moaning before one goes to bed because it disturbs one’s sleep patterns.
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Post by Verbivore on Oct 26, 2017 8:10:28 GMT
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