|
Post by Verbivore on Jun 1, 2020 4:13:00 GMT
An Australian satirical newspaper, the Betoota Advocate, has a go at non-metric measurement systems. “[…] moving through the air at an altitude as low as 40 feet,” said a pair of dark Ray-Bans, using an obsolete unit of measurement equivalent to 1.92 Budweiser bottles. “The objects in the 2015 footage appear to be approximately 0.26 Ford F-150s in length by 2.1 apple pies wide, which is equivalent to a medium-sized Taco Bell beverage. The speed of the object was approximately 2.5-3 FF/S (football fields per second). The footage from 2004 depicts a stationary object approximately 12.3 AR-15 assault rifles in length.”
|
|
|
Post by Little Jack Horner on Jun 1, 2020 22:21:19 GMT
... in answer to your question, first and foremost the important issue is ...
So is “first and foremost” a distinction between two different notions, an example of tautology or an acceptable idiom?
|
|
|
Post by Dave Miller on Jun 2, 2020 5:40:11 GMT
It’s not tautology, as it covers the two separate notions of “in first place” and “most importantly”. A complement to “last but not least”.
They are clichés, though, and for that reason I'd avoid them.
I have more of a problem with “each and every”. Although there’s perhaps a fine philosophical/legal difference between the two, in day-to-day use they carry the same notion twice, so form a tautology.
|
|
|
Post by Little Jack Horner on Jun 2, 2020 9:05:57 GMT
If there are two notions, Dave, it should be “the most important issues are”. And is it OK to have more than one “most important” issue?
|
|
|
Post by Dave Miller on Jun 2, 2020 12:07:46 GMT
I think we’re writing at cross purposes, Little.
“First” means the item mentioned first. “Foremost” means the most important item. Those differing concepts are what I mean by two notions - not two separate items in a list. Someone introducing a list of items always starts with the first one, but may not list the most important one first. The cliché is used when the speaker wants to confirm that the first-listed is indeed the most important.
In the example you gave, things get horribly complicated by the “foremost” item then being described overtly as “the important issue”. I can imagine this happening when the speaker is about to list several points, and wants to stress that the most important (foremost) of those points is that the important issue (among whatever is being discussed) is ...
|
|
|
Post by Verbivore on Jun 4, 2020 5:39:38 GMT
Quoted of an Aussie woman on the COVID lockdown and the financial stress of losing her job:
I had a job. I had a house loan, a car loan, a personal loan, and I live alone. There was no hint given as to how intentionally poetic that "alone" was or wasn't. I've known many who've lived a loan and gone bankrupt.
|
|
|
Post by Verbivore on Jun 4, 2020 14:19:57 GMT
Here's an odd request ...
On another forum (a private affair for "mature" gay men) I started a thread on epithets / sobriquets / euphemisms for "my kind" – and it's gone hot!
Most of the forum members / contributors are in North America, so many of the contributions to date are specific to that culture – though there are some non-English-language inclusions from exotic climes.
If anyone here has an offering or three, I'd be pleased to include it in my elsewhere list. I'd just like as comprehensive a list as possible. Example: poof / ~ta / ~ter and faggot were early inclusions from different sides of the pond(s) and are merely being listed and annotated etymologically, not value-judged. "Offensiveness" is not a consideration.
Ta.
|
|
|
Post by Twoddle on Jun 5, 2020 9:47:15 GMT
Here's an odd request ... On another forum (a private affair for "mature" gay men) I started a thread on epithets / sobriquets / euphemisms for "my kind" – and it's gone hot! Most of the forum members / contributors are in North America, so many of the contributions to date are specific to that culture – though there are some non-English-language inclusions from exotic climes. If anyone here has an offering or three, I'd be pleased to include it in my elsewhere list. I'd just like as comprehensive a list as possible. Example: poof / ~ta / ~ter and faggot were early inclusions from different sides of the pond(s) and are merely being listed and annotated etymologically, not value-judged. "Offensiveness" is not a consideration. Ta. Verbivore, I couldn't possibly. Harking back to the days of my youth, when homosexuality in the UK was viewed in an entirely different manner than today, I recall at least ten unpleasant epithets. You probably know them all, but I'd be loathe to repeat them here (or anywhere).
|
|
|
Post by Little Jack Horner on Jun 5, 2020 14:51:44 GMT
Sorry, Vv. I knew several acknowledgedly homosexual lads in my youth (the fifties) but I really don’t recall it’s being considered a big deal in my school. Perhaps we didn’t properly understand but a bit of homo-erotic behaviour was common and accepted without much notice. Homo and queer were about the only other words I can recall from those days and my friends today are all far too polite to be offensive to anyone.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Miller on Jun 5, 2020 20:13:07 GMT
In a direct email to Vv, I gave a few examples, but raised the idea that there is really no limit to the number of terms that might be used. With words that are “not politely sayable”, you can get away with inserting ANY word, as long as the listener knows what you mean, and you say it with a sort of vocal “wink”.
Pulling whatever nouns came randomly to mind, I gave the examples of:
He’s a bit of a curtain rail, you know. He gave her an absolute ironing.
In fact, now I think of it, if you wear the right facial expression, you could leave a blank pause and still carry your meaning!
Vv: add blank pause to the list I sent you!
|
|
|
Post by Verbivore on Jun 6, 2020 8:31:14 GMT
Thank you, Gents :-)
I accept reluctances to sully the board, and appreciate the PMs. Because of your offerings, the list has grown by about 30%.
List, as developed so far, sent to interested parties by PM or email (just ask – no offence or surprises if you don't).
And I just remembered: I have a very extensive lexicon that I compiled a couple of years ago for PFLAG. I'll have to dig that out.
|
|
|
Post by Verbivore on Jun 6, 2020 8:37:22 GMT
Sorry, Vv. I knew several acknowledgedly homosexual lads in my youth (the fifties) but I really don’t recall it’s being considered a big deal in my school. Perhaps we didn’t properly understand but a bit of homo-erotic behaviour was common and accepted without much notice. Homo and queer were about the only other words I can recall from those days and my friends today are all far too polite to be offensive to anyone. LJH: You were perhaps fortunate to attend a school that didn't over-dramatise such schoolboy-to-schoolboy proclivities (which activities I've heard referred to as The English Vice). I'm convinced that far more damage is done by hysterical parents than any mutually consensual, age-peer, exploratory boy-scouting. But that's a very fraught topic.
|
|
|
Post by Twoddle on Jun 6, 2020 9:52:00 GMT
LJH was indeed fortunate to attend such a school. At mine bullying was rife, and I lived in a degree of fear for most of my time there, but things were even worse for those showing any signs of effeminacy. Epithets were the least of their worries.
|
|
|
Post by Little Jack Horner on Jun 6, 2020 10:26:05 GMT
We had “assembly” at my secondary school every morning before classes. After assembly on my first day, the teachers all left and we were addressed by Mick Taylor the school captain who, amongst other things, told the new boys that bullying was not tolerated and that anyone not reporting it, including the one being bullied, would be punished along with the bully. There was no bullying – if there had been, I would have been a probable victim and I never was.
|
|
|
Post by Verbivore on Jun 6, 2020 10:33:42 GMT
You were indeed fortunate, LJH.
|
|