houses

[suvvern]

Can anyone tell me why it is:

one mouse, two mice
one louse, two lice
but
one house, two houses

or is it just another example of the eccentricity of English ?

(As distinct from the well known eccentricity of the English) ;D

Also, why is house pronounced with a soft ess sound in the middle, but houses with a hard ess (zz) ?

[TfS]

Aug 2, 2008 3:51:35 GMT suvvern said:

Can anyone tell me why it is:

one mouse, two mice
one louse, two lice
but
one house, two houses

one grouse, two grouse (optional)

[TfS]

Aug 2, 2008 3:51:35 GMT suvvern said:

Also, why is house pronounced with a soft ess sound in the middle, but houses with a hard ess (zz) ?

Regional pronunciation?
I pronounce "houses" with the same ess sound as in the singular form.

[Pete]

Aug 2, 2008 5:35:21 GMT TfS said:

one grouse, two grouse

I have a friend called Mike Grice. ;D

[Pete]

Aug 2, 2008 3:51:35 GMT suvvern said:

one mouse, two mice
one louse, two lice
but
one house, two houses

And, while we're at it: one spouse, two spice. ;D

[Twoddle]

Suvvern,

Am I the odd one out? I do the "house" thing the other way around: I pronounce "house" with a hard ess, and "houses" with two soft esses. Howss and howzez.

[Dave M]

Er ... now you've confused me, Twod. The "normal" (or at least most frequent) way is indeed to pronounce "houss" and "houziz". So that (I'm afraid) makes you normal.

However, if asked which is a "soft" ess, I'd say the "ss", not "zz", sound.

Am I the odd one out?

[Twoddle]

Aug 2, 2008 11:04:52 GMT Dave M said:

Er ... now you've confused me, Twod. The "normal" (or at least most frequent) way is indeed to pronounce "houss" and "houziz". So that (I'm afraid) makes you normal.

However, if asked which is a "soft" ess, I'd say the "ss", not "zz", sound.

Am I the odd one out?

Noe I'm confused. If "howss" has a soft ess, what sound does a hard ess make? (This is where Barry will introduce labial fricatives.)

[SusanB]

'S' is voiceless and 'z' is voiced. I assumed that 's' is soft and 'z' is hard, but that's just my attempt to map those terms onto the terms I know. (I have trouble understanding the difference between soft and hard water, so this may not be very helpful!)

[Dave]

Aug 2, 2008 16:40:46 GMT SusanB said:

I have trouble understanding the difference between soft and hard water

Soft water flows; hard water is ice.

[Dave]

I would pronounce the noun form (singular and plural) with an 'ess' sound for the first s and a 'zee' sound at the end of the plural (howsiz).

For the verb form ("This is where we house the machine"), I would use a 'zee' sound: howz.

[Tone]

Susan,
> (I have trouble understanding the difference between soft and hard water, so this may not be very helpful!)<

Simple, really.
a) Install lead plumbing. (What else would "plumbing" be but lead?)
b) Drink the water frequently every day.
c) Wait to see if you go mad or die.

Tone

[Dave M]

Is that standard US form, Dave? In Britain, we all (I think) use "houz" for the verb, but "houss, houzziz" is most common for the noun forms. Again, the Scots differ, often saying "houssez". Sometimes, a Dutch person's English will be so good that we forget they're not English - but the "ss-not-zz" pattern will be the give-away, in the middle of "houssess" and also in the sound of the final ess. That can apply to any final ess sound: Theess are not my houssess.

[Twoddle]

Aug 2, 2008 20:39:01 GMT Tone said:

Susan,
> (I have trouble understanding the difference between soft and hard water, so this may not be very helpful!)<

Simple, really.
a) Install lead plumbing. (What else would "plumbing" be but lead?)
b) Drink the water frequently every day.
c) Wait to see if you go mad or die.

Tone

The "Wait to see if you go mad or die" test can be deceptive, as we'll all die eventually and many of us will go mad through other causes. (In my case my first wife was the main contributory factor to my insanity, and there was nothing soft about her.) It would be disappointing if one's last words were, "Soft water!" but spoken in error. It's often easier just to look in one's kettle from time to time, where the presence of chalky-looking material would signify hard water (unless someone has dropped some chalk in there, which would complicate matters).

[Dave]

Aug 2, 2008 20:51:16 GMT Dave M said:

Is that standard US form, Dave? In Britain, we all (I think) use "houz" for the verb, but "houss, houzziz" is most common for the noun forms.

I just asked my wife to say those words and she says it your way--different than (from, to) my way. She's originally from Ohio, but has been in California for (gulp!) 38 years, if that helps you figure it out. As for as the other 299,999,998 Americans, I don't know!