Electric or electrical

[Pete]

Why do we refer to some things as being 'electric' and some as being 'electrical'? Examples are electric toothbrush or electric car but electrical system.

I can't see a qualitative difference; they seem to be two versions of the same adjective.

[Geoff]

Pete,

The definitions in the Macquarie Dictionary seem, to me, to explain the distinction you're looking for.

electric adj. 1. pertaining to, derived from, produced by, or involving electricity: an electric current, an electric shock. 2. producing, transmitting, or operated by electric currents: an electric bell ...

electrical adj. 1. electric. 2. concerned with electricity: an electrical system.

[Dave M]

Mmm ... now explain, Geoff, the difference between "involving" (definition 1) and "concerned with" (definition 2)

[Geoff]

Dave,

You put me on the spot there.

While I was puzzling over a meaningful response, I realised the example I had given for the second definition was not that in the dictionary. The dictionary's example for electrical was electrical engineer. I think the example I mistakenly gave still fits the distinction between involving and concerned with I would make. The distinction is basically one of the level of association with real currents and voltages. One level is intimate while the other is general; however, when I try to be more specific than that, I run into trouble finding the words. I know the distinction I'm wanting to make. I think the examples say it best for me.

[Pete]

Aug 7, 2008 16:03:35 GMT Geoff said:

Dave,

You put me on the spot there.

While I was puzzling over a meaningful response, I realised the example I had given for the second definition was not that in the dictionary. The dictionary's example for electrical was electrical engineer. I think the example I mistakenly gave still fits the distinction between involving and concerned with I would make. The distinction is basically one of the level of association with real currents and voltages. One level is intimate while the other is general; however, when I try to be more specific than that, I run into trouble finding the words. I know the distinction I'm wanting to make. I think the examples say it best for me.

Yes, they do. If we referred to an "electric engineer", I would expect him to be an early form of robot*. So it certainly works that way round. I can't think of a converse example, however.

*Obviously a more modern robot would be electronic.

[Pete]

In fact, there are people who refer to an "electrical current", which sounds wrong but from the definitions might still be right as one can see the more general association as well.

[Tone]

A certain store (no names, no pack drill -- but it's a heavenly object) appears to have the slogan "We live electricals".

How does that fit into the question. (Or does it?)

And, for that matter, what about the prefix "electro-"?

(Not, of course, forgetting Agamemnon's daughter!)

Tone

[Twoddle]

Aug 7, 2008 20:56:40 GMT Tone said:

(Not, of course, forgetting Agamemnon's daughter!)

Tone

Always at her best before noon.

[Verbivore]

Aug 7, 2008 16:32:05 GMT Pete said:

[...] *Obviously a more modern robot would be electronic.

On that (side-)note, how many people here pronounce robot as robo (i.e. with a silent t)? I feel that I (and the manufacturer of a brand of automatic car wash - ROBOwash) might be the only ones left (at least in Oz).

[Dave]

It's interesting to note:

As branches of physics, we have

• mechanics
  
• hydraulics
  
• pneumatics
  
• but not electrics

As adjectives, we have

• mechanical, but not mechanic
  
• hydraulic, but not hydraulical
  
• pneumatic, but not pneumatical
  
• and, as noted, electric and electrical
  

As adverbs, we have

• mechanically
  
• hydraulically
  
• pneumatically
  
• electrically
  

As a person or occupation, we have

• mechanic
  
• (plumber?)
  
• (plumber?)
  
• electrician
  

[TfS]

Aug 7, 2008 23:07:04 GMT Verbivore said:

On that (side-)note, how many people here pronounce robot as robo (i.e. with a silent t)? I feel that I (and the manufacturer of a brand of automatic car wash - ROBOwash) might be the only ones left (at least in Oz).

I pronounce it roh -bot.

See also these:

American Psychological Association (APA):
robot. (n.d.). Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Retrieved August 08, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: dictionary.reference.com/browse/robot

Chicago Manual Style (CMS):
robot. Dictionary.com. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/robot
(accessed: August 08, 2008).

Modern Language Association (MLA):
"robot." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 08 Aug. 2008.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/robot

[Vadim]

Aug 8, 2008 7:18:13 GMT Dave said:

It's interesting to note:

As branches of physics, we have

• mechanics
  
• hydraulics
  
• pneumatics
  
• but not electrics

As adjectives, we have

• mechanical, but not mechanic
  
• hydraulic, but not hydraulical
  
• pneumatic, but not pneumatical
  
• and, as noted, electric and electrical
  

As adverbs, we have

• mechanically
  
• hydraulically
  
• pneumatically
  
• electrically
  

As a person or occupation, we have

• mechanic
  
• (plumber?)
  
• (plumber?)
  
• electrician
  

What about Mechatronics - Mechatronical Engineer etc. As for the "plumber", don't these people call themselves "Heating Engineers" or some-such bull**it.

[Verbivore]

Tony: Many thanks for those links. Seems I've been mispronouncing robot all my life (well, since I first encountered the term in school - where we were introduced to it as robo(t).

I hadn't bothered researching its etymology, and had assumed, from they way I was taught to say it - and from the existence of brand names such as RoboWash - that the t must have been originally unsounded.

Learn something every day.

I wonder how long it will take me to unlearn / relearn its pronunciation.

[Twoddle]

My father used to pronounce "robot" your way, Vv. I've no idea why he did that; he had some very strange pronunciations, most of them from placing the stress on a different syllable from the rest of us.

[Verbivore]

Aug 8, 2008 9:29:27 GMT Twoddle said:

My father used to pronounce "robot" your way, Vv. I've no idea why he did that; he had some very strange pronunciations, most of them from placing the stress on a different syllable from the rest of us.

Do you mean he placed the emphasis on the wrong syllables?