Years?

[Tone]

I, too, was gonna say A.
Where else? But then might we be asking about the parking-brake (pedal)?

Surely they're not still making buses like those old-fashioned motorcars that some people still insist on choosing with the silly pedal in the middle!

(And anyways, surely the correct answer is "on the floor"?)


Tone

[Sue M-V]

Now, you see, there's an example "poor question"!

Yes, that was my point.

E: all of the above

Not possible, since "pedal" is singular.

Actually, the theory part of the Swedish driving test is multiple choice! It's a great long thing, and you're not allowed to get many wrong.

When I did mine, the examiner asked me, since I was a teacher, what I thought of it as a test. I said I thought it must be the ultimately fair test, since no actual intelligence was required to answer it, only a knowledge of driving.

I'm not being entirely daft! It's easy to see in our tests of English, for example, that the result depends at least as much on general intelligence as on one's knowledge of English. This doesn't seem entirely fair to me. I think that if one is an idiot in one's own language, this shouldn't penalise one's result if one is an equal idiot in English.

Interestingly, when we have exchange students here, we get them to do the same National Tests as the Swedish students, to compare. What is clear is that on "cloze" tests, and vocabulary tests the native speakers always do much better, but on e.g. reading comprehension tests, many Swedes get better results than the native speakers. This can't be a result of a superior understanding of English, but rather of a superior ability to reason and draw conclusions, which shouldn't really have much to do with a pure language test. The essays, too, are required to be intelligent.

It's very hard (probably impossible) to construct a worthwhile language test that doesn't require intelligence to do!

Sue

[Paul Doherty]

That was always one of the problems with IQ tests (and the UK 11+ exam) wasn't it? They test things other than what they claim to test -- culture and class, for example.

[Bertie]

May 6, 2008 20:21:03 GMT Paul Doherty said:

Oo, how does a power-assisted clutch work then? I've always wanted to be a bus driver.

I came rather late to this recent exchange, but wold still like to add my sixpenn'orth as a bus driver.
Most buses these days are fully automatic, so only have two pedals. (Some of those I drive in the States have an additional three 'buttons' under the left foot to operate the directionals.)
Some, such as the Leyland VR, with semi-automatic boxes are still in service and also have no clutch pedal.
The old London RTs had pre-select boxes, which required a quick 'blip 'on the clutch pedal to activate the selection. I think that must be what Dave M is referring to.

[Dave M]

power-assisted clutch - where the transmission does involve a traditional clutch, but it's separated on command, rather than by pressing a pedal (eg by pressing a button on the gear lever, or in response to the gear ever being moved).

The current smart cars, for example, have no clutch pedal, and engage the clutch when the revs rise. When you move the lever, they de-clutch, change, then re-clutch.

A bus would have a VERY heavy clutch action, so traditional clutches disappeared years ago.

The language-related point of this, of course, is that in designing multiple-choice questions, you need to consider not just what the required "correct" answer is, but also the scope for other things, unknown to you but known to the candidate, to intervene!

[Paul Doherty]

Interesting stuff, thanks both.

[Geoff]

May 7, 2008 8:28:34 GMT Dave M said:

The language-related point of this, of course, is that in designing multiple-choice questions, you need to consider not just what the required "correct" answer is, but also the scope for other things, unknown to you but known to the candidate, to intervene!

Another area where I fell foul of the examiners. I rejected quite a number of their questions arguing that the students might have learnt a bit more than what was in their prescribed texts, which certainly were not engineering level texts (nor were the examiners engineers).

This discussion certainly brings back the memories.

[Dave M]

Here's an example where the "student" could be thinking beyond the examiner (taken from a website giving its own examples of the (copyright) questions in the British "theory" part of the driving test):

You are allowed on a motorway provided:-
A - You are with a qualified driving instructor
B - You don't exceed 50 mph
C - You hold a full driving licence
D - You are asked to do so by a Police Officer

Now then:

• "do so" in D means what? (Asked to be allowed?)
  
• I'm recovering a broken-down vehicle, using an A-frame (limited to 40mph on a motorway)
  
• I hold a full driving licence, but I'm riding a moped at the time
  
• I hold no licence, I'm riding a moped, and I've been told to drive down the M1 by my passenger who is drunk (and who is a detective sergeant ...)
  

[Paul Doherty]

> I hold no licence, I'm riding a moped, and I've been told to drive down the M1 by my passenger who is drunk (and who is a detective sergeant ...) <

Happy days!

[Paul Doherty]

May 7, 2008 14:52:32 GMT Dave M said:

You are allowed on a motorway provided:-
...
D - You are asked to do so by a Police Officer

That's a bit like the infamous Morrison question: "Toni Morrison’s genius enables her to create novels that arise from and express the injustices African Americans have endured". Both do so and her refer to something which is implied but not stated.

www.worldwidewords.org/articles/ar-pos1.htm

[Tone]

The old London RTs had pre-select boxes, which required a quick 'blip 'on the clutch pedal to activate the selection.

I did most of my practising-for-the test on a Daimler fluid-flywheel pre-selector box (no, not the old Wilson box -- that oft "missed"). One stuck the "gear lever" (on the steering column) into the gear position that one expected (hah!) to need next and then pressed the (leftmost) foot pedal when one wanted to obtain it.

I actually started to learn to drive in manual Vauxhall Wyvern, but with a proper column shift, then did nearly all my practising on the pre-selector. Then the Daimler packed up just before my test and I borrowed an A40 with a horrendous floor shift (first gear didn't work -- so it was just 2, 3, and 4) for the test.

Ten year later I shifted (pun!) to a proper modern transmission and I've used one of them ever since (two pedals, one for each foot as the gods intended when they made us bipeds).

the UK 11+ exam) wasn't it? They test things other than what they claim to test -- culture and class,

So that's how I passed!

Tone

P.S.
And here is a rather nice "perception-based" test. Note that it dates from the 1960s:

Which is the odd one out?
A -- A cat
B -- A dog
C -- A television set

Which is the right answer and why?

[Bertie]

May 7, 2008 8:28:34 GMT Dave M said:

A bus would have a VERY heavy clutch action, so traditional clutches disappeared years ago.

Would that were true. I invite you to come down and drive one of our - for instance - Mercedes buses with a manual gear change. I assure you that the clutch is entirely pedial (?).

[Dave M]

Which is the odd one out?
A -- A cat
B -- A dog
C -- A television set

A - because I don't have one
B - because it doesn't get its own food
C - because it's got no legs

[noel]

A cat doesn't have a lead?

[Alan Palmer]

because it's got no legs

I can remember seeing several TV sets from the 1950s and 1960s that had legs.

I'd say that it is a TV set 'cos it's the only thing not worth watching.