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Post by Vadim on Jun 6, 2008 9:05:05 GMT
Sorry for cross-referencing this with my post in the other section but... I know this is probably perfectly acceptable but... doesn't "sound" correct to me at all. Is it common to roll them off the tongue, or is it just how I'm reading the sentence? On the data point, I have been in R&D for 6 years, and in education constantly since I was born (or it seems like it ) and I have never heard the word "datum" (or for that matter "bacterium") in the ways you describe.
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Post by Dave M on Jun 6, 2008 9:26:10 GMT
> a bacterium is a sadly diseased form of language use <
Gosh, no. I think last night was the first time I've EVER heard "a bacteria" used in any professional milieu.
I'm more happy - I think - to accept "one bacteria" to mean "one KIND of bacteria", but here they specifically meant one individual example of the little blighters. One of them is one bacterium.
We don't hear "one datum" much because we rarely speak of the one individual. "This data" is not likely to mean "this specific atomic element of the data," but rather "this (set of) data".
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Post by Verbivore on Jun 6, 2008 10:00:08 GMT
[...] but a bacterium is a sadly diseased form of language use. Oh dear - a senior moment, no doubt! ... but a bacteria is a sadly diseased form of language use.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 6, 2008 10:40:12 GMT
The (mis)use of data as a singular I can (almost, just, barely) live with Strictly speaking, that's a mass noun, not a singular, isn't it? One data sounds wrong (one piece of data) but the data is is OK.
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Post by Dave M on Jun 6, 2008 11:52:40 GMT
Quite so, Paul. We never say "one furniture", but do say "the furniture is ...", for the same reasons.
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Post by Tone on Jun 6, 2008 20:45:01 GMT
>> I've just seen the Dettol "one bacteria" advertisement and I'm feeling depressed!) <But it should go well with the guy that insists on "a criteria"! But I do support "the data is" because I accept that "data" has taken on a newer and different meaning from the strict plural-of-datum original. The use of "the data are" seems to me (excepting in legitimately academic usage) to be somewhat affected or "trying-to-be-clever". Tone
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Post by SusanB on Jun 8, 2008 0:03:59 GMT
I've heard Americans use "these data" more frequently. I would always say and write "this data" (and so would many other people I know). I had assumed that it was a British/American English difference, but I may be wrong.
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Post by Barry on Jun 8, 2008 9:46:40 GMT
Susan,
I think it tends to be more of a difference between older statisticians and the rest of humanity! It's one of those 'technical jargon' things.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 8, 2008 11:10:51 GMT
older statisticians and the rest of humanity! Don't even younger statisticians use it? Dr Mildr does, I think.
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Post by Alan Palmer on Jun 8, 2008 12:16:20 GMT
I think it's a "most statisticians" and the rest * thing. Statisticians use "data" a lot in their work, and were mostly taught that they should talk about "these data" and the like. Most others didn't have this drilled into them. * I exclude people like the members of this site from "the rest".
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Post by Dave M on Jun 8, 2008 16:14:42 GMT
I think it's less about statisticians "having the words drilled into them", than having a different mental concept of what the word "data" is referring to. Suppose we're talking about a series of ten temperature readings taken in an office, in degrees C: 22.3, 22.3, 37.8, 22.3, 22.3, 22.4, 22.3, 22.3, 22.3, 22.3
If those readings are then made available to someone, they make think of the set as being the data - and say that on this occasion the data is suspect. A statistician, though, may accept that 9 of the readings are correct, with the "37.8" likely to be a mistake. He'll say that the third datum is suspect and that these data are inconsistent (within themselves). He's actually holding a mental image of each reading as an individual thing.
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Post by goofy on Jun 8, 2008 16:21:48 GMT
"A bacteria" to mean "a kind of bacteria" is standard in journalism. "Data" is used as a plural noun like "earnings" and as a noncount noun taking a singular verb.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 8, 2008 16:50:18 GMT
"Data" is used as a plural noun like "earnings" and as a noncount noun taking a singular verb. When? Patently not universally true.
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Post by Pete on Jun 8, 2008 19:24:42 GMT
"A bacteria" to mean "a kind of bacteria" is standard in journalism. "Data" is used as a plural noun like "earnings" and as a noncount noun taking a singular verb. The sign on the toilet door in an office where I worked said, "Please wash your hands. Bacteria spreads disease." Inexcusably, unacceptably, horribly wrong. ;D
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Post by Dave M on Jun 9, 2008 7:59:43 GMT
> "A bacteria" to mean "a kind of bacteria" is standard in journalism. <
Yes ... but in the advert, saying something like "within hours, one bacteria can turn into thousands ...", it's not one KIND of bacteria that's meant: it's one individual bacterium.
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