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Post by Dave on Jun 15, 2008 16:36:34 GMT
In an article by Mary Roach ("Quirks", Reader's Digest, May, 2008), the author uses the term drivers'-ed instructor; what caught my attention was the pairing of the apostrophe and the hypen. However, I've only found - driver's ed
- drivers ed
- driver ed
(or education for ed)
I guess that the instructor is educating more than one driver at a time, but.... |
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 15, 2008 18:28:55 GMT
That can't possibly be right: the possessive apostrophe is invariably either the last or the penultimate character, never a middle character. Either it's one word or two: driver-ed or drivers' ed. And ed. probably needs a period -- it's not a recognised word (at least in the UK). |
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Post by Sue M-V on Jun 15, 2008 19:20:50 GMT
drivers'-ed instructor I'm sorry to be more than usually obtuse, but I can't understand it at all! Sue  |
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 15, 2008 22:07:24 GMT
An instructor of drivers' education, Sue.
What we'd probably call a trainer of driving instructors.
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Post by Geoff on Jun 15, 2008 22:39:04 GMT
I posted the following on the APS this morning before coming here: I don't have Reader's Digest so I can't put 'drivers'-ed' into its true context; but I would think 'driver education' might have been a better choice of words. If I were to shorten 'driver education' I might have written 'driver-ed 'simply because 'ed' is not a word. Why 'driver education'? Because I see it as being akin to my licence to drive which is correctly called a 'driver licence'. It seems you and I agree, Paul. |
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Post by Sue M-V on Jun 15, 2008 22:59:05 GMT
An instructor of drivers' education Thanks for the explanation, Paul, but it still sounds very odd to me! How can one instruct someone's education? I can see how one might instruct driving instructors/teachers (= teachers of driving), or train them, as you suggest, but I find the original very hard to grasp as it stands. Sue |
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Post by Dave on Jun 15, 2008 23:06:39 GMT
An instructor of drivers' education, Sue. What we'd probably call a trainer of driving instructors. In the US it's the (usually) high school teacher who teaches driver education to the students. Driver training is the behind-the-wheel training/teaching, while driver education is the book-learning aspect. When budgets need to be tightened in the public schools, these programs usually are eliminated. You'll hear driver and drivers used for both of these, so it's hard to tell where the speaker imagines, if at all, an apostrophe. Indeed, this site isn't consistent. Ed (without the period) is a frequently used abbreviation for education. |
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 15, 2008 23:52:08 GMT
my licence to drive which is correctly called a 'driver licence'. Whereas mine, in the UK, is a driving licence. |
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Post by suvvern on Jun 16, 2008 1:10:36 GMT
my licence to drive which is correctly called a 'driver licence'. Whereas mine, in the UK, is a driving licence. Also in the UK, I have a driving licence, but it doesn't drive  |
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Post by SusanB on Jun 16, 2008 3:07:45 GMT
Before reading Dave's explanation of the differences between the various types of driving-related instruction, I had a similar problem to Sue with the phrase concerning instruction of someone's education. Even knowing that 'driver education' is a topic, it still sounds very strange. But at least I can understand it now!
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Post by Geoff on Jun 16, 2008 7:39:37 GMT
I really only meant it was correct here in Victoria (Australia). I knew at the time of writing I wasn't being specific enough, but let it stand.
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Post by Dave M on Jun 16, 2008 8:01:12 GMT
> drivers'-ed
That can't possibly be right: the possessive apostrophe is invariably either the last or the penultimate character, never a middle character.
Either it's one word or two: driver-ed or drivers' ed. And ed. probably needs a period -- it's not a recognised word (at least in the UK). <
It'd certainly be unusual - but does that mean it can't possibly be right? Remember that we're not talking about the noun driver's ed, we're talking about the adjective formed from that phrase, when we apply it to the noun instructor - your "filing-cabinet green" case, Paul.
We don't use "ed" as a noun in the UK, but the Americans certainly do, and so popularly, it seems, that it'd be relieved of its period as much as are photo and video.
Can we not write, He compared the voters'-reaction reports against the journalists'-preference findings?
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Post by Verbivore on Jun 16, 2008 8:16:18 GMT
> drivers'-ed[...] We don't use "ed" as a noun in the UK, but the Americans certainly do, and so popularly, it seems, that it'd be relieved of its period as much as are photo and video. [...] is also in common use in Oz: driver ed, sex ed, phys(ical) ed ... . |
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Post by Vadim on Jun 16, 2008 10:32:32 GMT
.
We have three simple answers for these in the UK:
a) driver ed becomes-- No idea because we simply don't do it;
b) sex ed becomes-- Shhh! No one likes to talk about it, and still thinks we don't have a teenage pregnancy problem.
c) phys(ical) ed becomes -- This one is easy. It's PE you foreign ***!
Hope this helps ;D
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Post by Verbivore on Jun 16, 2008 11:54:13 GMT
[...] a) driver ed becomes-- No idea because we simply don't do it; And we don't do it very well (by my Defensive Driving standards, at least). The main teenage pregnancy problem in Oz is the federal government "taxpayer-funded prostitution scheme" - my name for the unconscionable "Baby Bonus". Don't get me started on that! It was PE when I was at school, but has undergone some name changes since, Phys Ed being but one of those. |
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