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Post by marie on Jul 30, 2013 18:14:40 GMT
Hello everyone.
I sometimes read in blogs people writing "He speaks a good English" or "He has a good English". Is it ever correct to say or write such things?
Merci
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Post by hubertus on Jul 30, 2013 18:31:33 GMT
I have never encountered it and it sounds wrong.
On the other hand, he has a good level/knowledge/understanding of English would be fine.
The indefinite article cannot go with English in this context, I reckon. There's no such thing as an English. Whilst you can have a level etc.
But I would probably say 'He speaks English well.' or 'His English is good' as both of these sentences sounds 'better' to my ears.
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Post by Dave Miller on Jul 30, 2013 19:37:35 GMT
Mmmm ...
I reckon that "He speaks good English" is the usual (informal) way of saying it. However, it is possible (in other contexts) to use the indefinite article to make "an English".
"She makes a good cake", "He talks a good talk" and so on make perfect sense, so why not refer to someone's English in similar fashion? We can creep up on the structure, by looking at, say:
The English they use in the West Country sounds old-fashioned.
They also speak a strange English in Hampshire.
I wouldn't like to say which is better, but it's interesting that what they speak on the 'phone is a perfectly good English!
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Post by marie on Jul 30, 2013 20:23:27 GMT
Merci. That's what I suspected.
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Post by Tone on Jul 30, 2013 20:46:20 GMT
Agreed that "he speaks good English" is normal and correct, but I have heard "he speaks a good English" used on a number of occasions when applied to someone who has a noticeable foreign accent (usually Indian) and tends to be very pedantic-sounding in the use of the language.
A particularly noticeable habit (well, noticeable to me) is the use of "it has fallen to the floor" when most of us would say "it has fallen on the floor".
Tone
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Post by hubertus on Jul 30, 2013 21:46:34 GMT
I think my objection to an English is that it hints that there might be two or more Englishes. Which I suppose is your point, Dave Miller.
If one considered there to be only one possible English, this would then contrast with the possibility of multiple cakes or talks.
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Post by Dave Miller on Jul 31, 2013 6:45:07 GMT
Well, hub, there are definitely at least two Englishes: British and American! When we then take into account more minor variations, there are very many Englishes!
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Post by hubertus on Jul 31, 2013 7:13:54 GMT
Well, hub, there are definitely at least two Englishes: British and American! When we then take into account more minor variations, there are very many Englishes! You're right of course. A further point, relating to the original post of Marie's, is what [philosophically or socio-linguistically] constitutes 'good' in relation to English. Perhaps more descriptive and less value-laden terms could include, fluent, expressive, grammatically correct and accurate. |
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Post by Dave Miller on Jul 31, 2013 7:52:46 GMT
> what ... constitutes 'good' <
Indeed. In the context of language, "good" is perhaps as loose as "nice" so often is elsewhere.
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Post by Alan Palmer on Jul 31, 2013 8:27:37 GMT
You'd say that about a non-native speaker only. Almost by definition a native speaker speaks (a) good English.
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Post by hubertus on Jul 31, 2013 8:37:03 GMT
You'd say that about a non-native speaker only. Almost by definition a native speaker speaks (a) good English. Not sure about that. It all hinges on the interpretation of the word 'good'. Some would opine that a native speaker of English who peppers his speech with argot, slang or dialectical terms doesn't speak good English. I'm not one of them. For instance, I sometimes adopt the W Yorks vernacular and say, "I were going along the road ..." Not even accurate subject-verb agreement according to 'correct/standard' English. |
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Post by amanda on Jul 31, 2013 9:04:58 GMT
I'm not one of them. For instance, I sometimes adopt the W Yorks vernacular and say, "I were going along the road ..." Not even accurate subject-verb agreement according to 'correct/standard' English. The majority of children in my class think, say and therefore write in such a way: her eyes was blue; we was going home; the book were old; he were a scruffy dog; and so on. Adults around them (including many school staff) speak to them in this way. I spend so much teaching time trying to 'correct' this. |
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Post by Alan Palmer on Jul 31, 2013 19:21:23 GMT
The children speak perfectly good English, but they don't yet have a proper sense of the register they are using. RP is no more or less "good" than their natural speech. However, they need to learn something closer to RP and when to use it.
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Post by hubertus on Jul 31, 2013 23:15:52 GMT
The children speak perfectly good English, but they don't yet have a proper sense of the register they are using. RP is no more or less "good" than their natural speech. However, they need to learn something closer to RP and when to use it. Is RP received pronunciation? |
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Post by Alan Palmer on Aug 1, 2013 5:22:20 GMT
Yes.
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