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Post by Rajesh Valluri AKA Raj on Jun 16, 2008 22:39:54 GMT
First things first. Let me apologize for using the apostrophes at the wrong place, twice. I am so excited at the thought of writing, that I committed the cardinal sin of apostrophe misuse. Also, I didn't know raucous and ruckus are different with different meanings. Thanks for pointing that out. Now thats out of our way, please follow this link to see for yourself about the abuse of pictures of Hindu deities. www.ivarta.com/Cause/C2_Sittin_Pretty.htmI know the westerners are pretty open to foreign cultures( at least in modern times that we are living in), but there are always some insensitive people that tend to trample other people's feelings. www.ivarta.com/Cause/C2_Sittin_Pretty.htm
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Post by Sue M-V on Jun 16, 2008 23:44:08 GMT
Now thats out of our way But now this is in the way! After a quickish look at the site you have posted, Rajesh,I think that the products such as toilet seats, socks, slippers and so on, embellished with inappropriate symbols/icons, are a result of ignorance, rather than a wish to offend. I note that the toilet seats were withdrawn from production. I can't imagine that they were intended as a racist slur, but as a stupid attempt to be exotic/ethnic/chic! I would guess that Ganesha was put on slippers simply because he looks cute to some people! As Pete says, there is definitely something irresistible about him and if you don't know his story, you might think he was an elephant with a human body, rather than a god with an elephant's head. Don't forget that the Americans and British are quite likely to wear slippers, underpants, etc with their national flags on, and if they don't put symbols of Jesus on such things it's probably because he isn't thought to be cute, and also that they know more about him and would be aware that this might give offence. Our clothes often have symbols of things we prize highly, like football teams, universities and the like. I sometimes wonder about the Chinese characters that westerners have printed on fabrics, wallpaper, and even tattooed onto their bodies: why do they want these, and how can they be sure that they're communicating the right message? I suppose the answer is that a) the symbols are very decorative and b) they don't care! The typical images of the Hindu gods are highly decorative to look at, and if you know nothing at all about them, you might take them simply for decorations. Personally, I'd be very wary of using any symbol that I didn't properly understand, especially a religious one. Sue
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Post by Verbivore on Jun 17, 2008 0:21:33 GMT
My only close brushes (sort of) with Ganesha were (a) a Hindu b/f who had a little shrine to him in the house, and bidis / beedies - Ganesh brand - when I used to smoke the things. (Pure tar wrapped in a laurel leaf!)
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 17, 2008 0:47:47 GMT
Let me apologize for using the apostrophes at the wrong place, twice. No need to apologise. If we point out each other's errors it's almost always because we wish to be helpful, or to tease someone who we think won't mind. I don't think it's ever because we feel some sin or transgression has occurred!
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 17, 2008 0:53:59 GMT
Now thats out of our wayDon't forget that the Americans and British are quite likely to wear slippers, underpants, etc with their national flags on I don't think that's true for Americans, in fact, Sue. I think they take Old Glory very seriously, and there are specific federal laws about burning it, defacing it, or using it improperly. They certainly fly theirs much more than we fly ours. Perhaps Dave can advise? We British, of course, can do what we like with the flag. But people have been instructed to remove "Tony B liar" T-shirts, I believe.
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Post by Rajesh Valluri AKA Raj on Jun 17, 2008 5:57:15 GMT
"I don't think that's true for Americans, in fact, Sue. "
I have been to a few places of questionable repute during my stay in the States, and some girls do wear underpants made of their flag colors. Again, I am a vehement supporter of free speech and hence I make no bones about people doing this sort of stuff. Its a sad spectacle to see many being tormented for expressing their views in my home country. That's a different topic and is for a different forum, anyway.
Back to my misplaced apostrophes, I know people don't mean any ill-will when they point out the errors in my typing. Note that I used the word typing, because I believe its just the typing that's the culprit. My fingers automatically graze on to that key most of the times, perhaps a side-effect of too many words with apostrophes in my regular usage.
Enough with the digression, let's get back to nitpicking!!
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Post by Pete on Jun 17, 2008 8:52:53 GMT
I sometimes wonder about the Chinese characters that westerners have printed on fabrics, wallpaper, and even tattooed onto their bodies: why do they want these, and how can they be sure that they're communicating the right message? I suppose the answer is that a) the symbols are very decorative and b) they don't care! This reminds me of the elderly lady who knitted sweaters/jumpers (take your pick) for herself and her husband. As motifs, she chose characters from the menu at their favourite Chinese restaurant. When they went there wearing the jumpers the staff were rolling about laughing: it turned out that the couple had "Best Chinese food in town" emblazoned across their chests!
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Post by Dave on Jun 17, 2008 9:12:18 GMT
I don't think that's true for Americans, in fact, Sue. I think they take Old Glory very seriously, and there are specific federal laws about burning it, defacing it, or using it improperly. They certainly fly theirs much more than we fly ours. Perhaps Dave can advise? Indeed there are laws pertaining to the proper use of the American flag. (By the way, we just had Flag Day (June 14)--not that any major celebration took place, like on the Fourth of July.) There are restrictions concerning the "other" uses for the flag, but I think mostly what you see as the flag being used for clothing, etc., is the impression of the flag. When examined more closely, there are red and white stripes and there are white stars on a blue background, but it may not actually be the flag. A lot of this started in the '60s during the Viet Nam war protests.
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Post by Dave on Jun 17, 2008 9:19:13 GMT
OK! Perhaps, vallurirajesh (not Rajesh, Sue ), you just need to move the apostrophes that you have around a bit!
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Post by Gabriel-Ernest on Jun 17, 2008 12:43:34 GMT
I strongly believe that representations of deities and/or religious symbols should be respected and inappropriate use of them discouraged.
Having said that it is difficult to believe the amount of tat, in extremely bad taste, on sale at Christian holy sites. Knowing I was interested in such things, a friend brought me back a souvenir (I will spare you the details) from the Our Lady of Wallsingham site in Norfolk (U.K.). When the thing fell apart after a few weeks I found that the picture of Our Lady had been cut out of a magazine! I have a particular fondness for the Jesus with a nodding head (it is on a spring) that is available to put in one’s car, or the Jesus snow-globe.
With such friends who needs enemies?
G-E.
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Post by Verbivore on Jun 17, 2008 13:03:35 GMT
I strongly believe that representations of deities and/or religious symbols should be respected and inappropriate use of them discouraged. [...] G-E. Would inappropriate use include the gross appropriation by xtianity of just about every symbol it employs (bar the ichthys "fish") - with little if any acknowledgement of sources? No other xtian symbols are original: they were all stolen from pre-existing religions (yes, including the cross).
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Post by Dave M on Jun 17, 2008 13:13:37 GMT
Just by St Peter's in Rome, and again inside the Vatican itself, I looked in gift shops, where nuns straightfacedly offered to sell me plastic models of the Virgin Mary, each in a plastic "grotto", surrounding by an arc of flashing multicoloured LEDs.
I'm not sure whether Michelangelo would have been offended, or enjoyed the supreme kitschiness.
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Post by Dave M on Jun 17, 2008 13:14:49 GMT
Are there other religions, under the influence of which people wear around their necks little models of capital punishment?
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Post by Gabriel-Ernest on Jun 17, 2008 13:18:49 GMT
Would inappropriate use include the gross appropriation by xtianity of just about every symbol it employs . . .
Quite possibly. But it might be difficult to enforce the trademark laws and successfully sue quite so retrospectively.
G-E.
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Post by Pete on Jun 17, 2008 13:51:48 GMT
Are there other religions, under the influence of which people wear around their necks little models of capital punishment? What a great idea! French revolutionaries - anti-religion, of course - wearing little guillotines. They could have working ones for clipping cigars! ;D Or Americans with mini-electric chairs or syringes! ;D The possibilities are endless.
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