Referring to persons in third person

[Paul Doherty]

Posted by Rajesh Valluri on the APS at May 18, 08 - 11:54 AM

I am not really good with remembering names, and I often find myself pointing at the person and referring to them in the third person. I was told recently at work that it is considered really rude to do so, and I should always refer to people by their names. I used to do this back in the US and no one seemed to mind, in fact, I remember others doing this as well. So, I wonder if this is an old school English thing??

[Paul Doherty]

Posted by Tone on the APS at May 18th, 2008 - 8:48 PM

Rajesh,
You should really go to the other forum for this (in future see header for this), but, as you've asked:
>So, I wonder if this is an old school English thing?<

That would be surname only (no honorific, no first name), and I wish it still was!

But that which you are doing is quite OK.

Tone

[Tone]

So, continuing it here:

>it is considered really rude to do so, and I should always refer to people by their names<

OK. So, to avoid being rude the poor chap is required to never speak of anyone whose name he doesn't know?

I wonder where Rajesh works? The place can't work very efficiently with a "rule" like that -- or can it?

Tone
(Who is very poor at remembering names.)

P.S.
It would seem that there is evidence that names are stored a in a different part of the brain (or the brain's lexicon) than other nouns. But then are peoples' names really "nouns"? (You can't normally put "the" in front of someone's name.)

[Tone]

By the by:
A useful service, Paul.
Good idea!
Do you intend to continue it?

Tone

[Barry]

I recall being asked by my mother, with some asperity (after I'd been talking about 'she'): "Who's 'she', the cat's mother?". But I guess that's because I knew perfectly well what my mother ewas called (although I'd still be referring to her in the third person, in this instance). I suppose the pronouns (he/she) might be thought of as a bit abrupt, but there are other 'third person' ways of address that aren't rude: 'my colleague', 'my associate', using his/her job title, etc.

[Paul Doherty]

May 18, 2008 20:54:10 GMT Tone said:

Do you intend to continue it?

On an ad-hoc, best-efforts, no-guarantees sort of basis! Unless John H objects.

[Paul Doherty]

The trouble with Rajesh's situation is that it's perfectly possible to be rude to someone while pointing at them (or without pointing at them) when using their name or when referring to them as he/she. It's all in the tone (sorry Tone) and the body language.

[Sue M-V]

The trouble with Rajesh's situation is that it's perfectly possible to be rude to someone while pointing at them (or without pointing at them) when using their name or when referring to them as he/she. It's all in the tone (sorry Tone) and the body language.

I agree entirely, Paul - a lot depends on context; everything is relative. I think you can pretty well guarantee to be thought rude if you point demonstratively at someone and refer to them as "him over there", rather than nodding discreetly in his direction and referring to "the chap over there in the green jacket". The best policy is probably to find out the person's name first and then talk about them! Unlike Tone, I wouldn't say that what Rajesh has been doing is "OK". I'm surprised that no one minded in America.

Perhaps the Americans were just too polite to tell him that they thought him rude!

Sue

[Paul Doherty]

Often better to say "as you say" (with an acknowledging nod) than "as he says" (with or without the pointing).

Many of us Brits were told by our mothers that "it's rude to point". Like so much our mothers told us this may not be as universally true as we were led to believe, but it might make us uneasy about too much pointing.

[Verbivore]

May 18, 2008 22:40:07 GMT Paul Doherty said:

[...] Many of us Brits were told by our mothers that "it's rude to point". Like so much our mothers told us this may not be as universally true as we were led to believe, but it might make us uneasy about too much pointing.

Ditto in Oz. Pointing fingers of little lads got slapped away.

[Barry]

Like so much our mothers told us this may not be as universally true as we were led to believe ...

[glow=blue,2,300]Sigh[/glow]

How true. My mother also told me that I should never talk to strangers. How much I would have missed out on, had I heeded her advice ...

[Verbivore]

May 19, 2008 10:06:52 GMT Barry said:

Like so much our mothers told us this may not be as universally true as we were led to believe ...

[glow=blue,2,300]Sigh[/glow]
How true. My mother also told me that I should never talk to strangers. How much I would have missed out on, had I heeded her advice ...

And mine insisted that I never get into a car with a stranger. She was so successful (initially!) that one day I refused to get into a taxi with her, and she had to walk all the way home with groceries and me. (Of course, I've since learned that "Stranger Danger" is a crock of fertiliser, and happily climb into cars with strange men - sometimes, the stranger the better!)

[Rajesh Valluri AKA Raj]

Paul: Thanks for moving my post here. I am really excited to see this forum, much cooler and much nicer interface. I also thank everyone for chiming in their opinion, and while most of them got it right, I need to clarify my problem just a little bit. Here is what's happening at work lately.
There are around six people in my team. During my interactions with team members, even though I know their names, I just say "he said", "she said" etc. Its funny how I was told about this being rude as well, I was making funny of my colleagues use of "ghetto English" ( ex: I is, you's so funny, etc) and she told me that I am not perfect either and I was being very rude by referring to people in thrid person. This was all in good fun anyway, but I was surprised that I was never told that it is impolite to do so. Then again, I grew up in India on a farm, and I consider I am doing great considering everything.

[Alan Palmer]

Like Barry, I well remember being asked "Who's she? The cat's mother?" as a child although in my case both my grandmothers tended to ask. At the time I never understood their objections; in particular, they why never objected if I used "he".

[Barry]

Rajesh,

I can sort of see the problem; if you're a member of a team that works regularly together, it's probably generally accepted that you ought to know your team-mates' names, and use them, at least every so often (at the beginning of a sentence, for example):

"Joe said he was going to have the accounts ready for Monday - but I'm not sure he's finished them yet".

Not using their names (and using third-person pronouns all the time) sends the message that you can't remember their names, so they're not important to you, and consequently, you don't see yourself as part of the team.

All these subliminal messages add up!

Incidentally, saying "Joe did such-and-such ..." is still talking in the third person, it's just you're using a name (a proper noun) rather than a pronoun.