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Tenses
Jul 27, 2008 13:23:32 GMT
Post by Twoddle on Jul 27, 2008 13:23:32 GMT
For the first few days after he was downed, Bader was entertained by the German squadron that had downed him. He wanted to know which of them had shot him down, but none of the Germans claimed the kill, although all of them would have liked to have been able to have done so. He was then transferred to a PoW camp and within a few days had completely changed his story, telling the World for the rest of his life that he'd collided with a German 'plane, lost his tail, and they'd both gone down. However, the German records (and the German squadron commander) said that no German 'plane had been in a collision that day. One of Bader's own pilots claimed to have downed a German 'plane, blowing off its tail with cannon fire, but the only Me 109 shot down in the encounter was hit by machine gun, not cannon.
To cut a two-hour documentary short, the only explanation seems to be that Bader - who was flying in the wrong direction in his usual gung-ho fashion, but against regulations - was shot down by one of his subordinate officers who survived the war and went to his grave believing he'd downed a German. When Bader discovered this, he made up the story about the mid-air collision because: His huge ego wouldn't let him tell the public about such an event; He didn't want one of his pilots to take the blame; or The effect it would have had on morale at home. (He was a huge star in the UK.)
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Tenses
Jul 27, 2008 17:42:32 GMT
Post by Pete on Jul 27, 2008 17:42:32 GMT
Sorry about that. When I remember, I call them clients. Does that help? Of course, these days HM Revenue & Customs is supposed to call us all "customers". We thought it was laughable when I was a tax inspector. We think it more so now!
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Tenses
Jul 27, 2008 20:40:37 GMT
Post by Tone on Jul 27, 2008 20:40:37 GMT
>When I remember, I call them clients. Does that help?<Hm ... Punters? Marks? IT -- an occupation that worked very hard to create a need for itself! Pretty much like the man who invented the horseshoe -- set himself up for life with a job as a farrier! Twoddle, I'm sure that you've got that all wrong about Bader. I've just had to watch "Reach for the Sky" and it's nothing like you say! Tone
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Tenses
Jul 27, 2008 21:14:38 GMT
Post by Twoddle on Jul 27, 2008 21:14:38 GMT
Twoddle, I'm sure that you've got that all wrong about Bader. I've just had to watch "Reach for the Sky" and it's nothing like you say! Tone You're probably right, Tone; the picture of Bader in Wikipedia looks nothing like he did in the film.
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Tenses
Jul 27, 2008 21:32:46 GMT
Post by Pete on Jul 27, 2008 21:32:46 GMT
Twoddle, I'm sure that you've got that all wrong about Bader. I've just had to watch "Reach for the Sky" and it's nothing like you say! Tone You're probably right, Tone; the picture of Bader in Wikipedia looks nothing like he did in the film. Not much of a surprise, given that Bader was the source for much of his own hagiography biography.
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Tenses
Jul 27, 2008 22:57:22 GMT
Post by Bertie on Jul 27, 2008 22:57:22 GMT
I met the man once, when I was a young RAF officer. His arrogant self-absorption made for a very one-sided conversation that destroyed any feelings of hero worship that I may previously entertained.
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Tenses
Jul 28, 2008 6:42:18 GMT
Post by Twoddle on Jul 28, 2008 6:42:18 GMT
I met the man once, when I was a young RAF officer. His arrogant self-absorption made for a very one-sided conversation that destroyed any feelings of hero worship that I may previously entertained. I get the impression that he was definitely a Marmite man - love him or hate him. He seems to have exercised great leadership skills on his subordinates, but to have got right up the the noses of many others with whom he had contact.
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Tenses
Jul 28, 2008 11:11:46 GMT
Post by Barry on Jul 28, 2008 11:11:46 GMT
I gather he used to get legless at parties.
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Tenses
Jul 28, 2008 13:38:15 GMT
Post by Paul Doherty on Jul 28, 2008 13:38:15 GMT
Barry, that's unforgivable. You don't have a leg to stand on.
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Tenses
Jul 28, 2008 14:09:42 GMT
Post by Barry on Jul 28, 2008 14:09:42 GMT
... and neither did he ;D
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David
New Member
Posts: 16
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Tenses
Jul 28, 2008 14:54:41 GMT
Post by David on Jul 28, 2008 14:54:41 GMT
Anyone remember the classic Peter Cook & Dudley Moore "One Leg Too Few" sketch? If not, it's here. Meanwhile, back at the thread: > If he had a licence, he was insured to drive my car < Yes, the sentence does look odd at first sight, but it's a format that does have a use, when a situation is quite possible, and something can be deduced from it. For that example, consider this background story: A businessman goes on a six-month cruise, leaving his car with his driver. While he's away, an office messenger borrows the car and crashes it. The car is insured for any employee of the company, subject to their having a licence. After some time, the driver finds out and is worried whether the lad was insured, so rings his boss to ask. His boss replies "If he had a licence, he was insured to drive my car". Thanks for providing a context and a clear explanation, Dave M. So, just to check I'm barking up the right tree, this is a case of near-certainty; i.e. in this example we're assuming that the businessman was fairly certain the messenger had a licence, and his "if" is close in meaning to "as long as/provided that".
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Tenses
Jul 28, 2008 15:25:29 GMT
Post by Dave M on Jul 28, 2008 15:25:29 GMT
Hi, David
Consider your tree correctly barked, sir!
I don't know about "near certainty", though - the boss perhaps simply didn't know whether or not the office messenger had a licence - but the point is that the boss is considering a circumstance that could be true.
That's quite different from what's happening when we say If he had had a licence, he would have been covered - there, we're considering a hypothetical circumstance which we know is not true (he doesn't actually have a licence).
> "if" is close in meaning to "as long as/provided that". < Yes, in this case it is.
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