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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 11, 2008 19:45:06 GMT
I'm here!
One of the things I always liked about the APS was the "rolling 250" -- although annoying at times, being ephemeral does have its advantages. My memory is that people complained about the lack of an edit facility much more than they complained about the thread or board limits. Also the adverts (until one gave in and installed an ad-blocker) were very intrusive.
But my aim has always been to moderate here with a light (maybe invisible) touch. If people want to limit each thread to one topic, or impose an arbitrary limit on thread length, that's fine by me. But I won't be policing it!"
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 11, 2008 19:54:51 GMT
And I think there's a danger of taking all this too seriously. It's only a talking shop -- we're not creating some vast work of reference here. Geoff says:
Well, yes, but what use would such an index be? No-one's ever going to consult it!
If one is looking for something specific, there is a search facility (and, unlike the APS, anything written here will stay "forever").
I could set up a strictly moderated board easily enough -- indeed, one could emulate the APS and lock threads soon after 30 posts and delete anything more than (say) 40 days old. But would it be popular?
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 11, 2008 20:03:23 GMT
I could set up a strictly moderated board easily enough And now I have.
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Post by Tone on Jun 11, 2008 20:51:04 GMT
Leave it alone, Paul.
('Cept get rid of the bloody silly Karma.)
Tone
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Post by Geoff on Jun 11, 2008 23:36:38 GMT
Well, yes, but what use would such an index be? No-one's ever going to consult it! What I had in mind, Paul, was that any newcomer to the board would get a better idea of the range of subjects discussed. I feel it could make the board more attractive to an outsider: a bit of order out of chaos. What newbie assessing the board wants to wade through seven, eight, nine or more pages to see what goes on here or to find the answer to a problem. There have been times when a Google search for something has taken me to a discussion board and if there's too much waffle off topic, I give up my search from that source. It doesn't happen often because most boards (threads) I search seem to stay on topic.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 12, 2008 1:44:37 GMT
Geoff, Google takes me to the page where my search term is mentioned (and then I often use Ctrl+F to search within the page). I don't go wandering about boards trying to assess them.
It hadn't occurred to me that other people do!
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Post by Geoff on Jun 12, 2008 7:51:09 GMT
Paul,
Nor do I. When Google takes me to a page, the whole thread seems to be of some relevance to the subject I'm interested in. That's not to say that every post is worthy of note, but reading the whole thread would provide a necessary context. I have to wonder if that is so here.
I thought it was great when you established the Board and imagined that what took place on the APS would take place here, but I don't think it has. On the APS the regulars would raise an issue to do with English and visitors would pop in and do likewise. There would be discussion on the issue raised and then the thread would become inactive or there might be a bit of 'off-topic' chat, often sparked by a casual remark. The restriction to thirty posts meant that the bulk of posts in a thread were on the title subject (yes, I know, that wasn't always so) and if the off-topic banter continued, it did so under a new relevant title.
Here we still seem to discuss the same things but the focus seems to have gone. Not even the Board title is indicative of what goes on here or the purpose for which the Board was established. Some might argue that the title does suggest the reason for your establishing the Board, but to a newcomer, the title I think would be meaningless.
It's easy to be a critic, I know, but my comments are meant to be constructive. I just wonder whether someone wanting an answer to a particular point of English would find us or ask his/her question here.
Perhaps others like it the way it is, just a place to chat.
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Post by Vadim on Jun 12, 2008 8:43:56 GMT
I was going to quote several statements from each of the previous seven posts, or there abouts, but that may detract from my main point -- which is...
I would never have posted, or enjoyed posting, anywhere near as many comments as I have here, on a board such as the APS. It is very restrictive to newcomers and very daunting to anyone who is not Shakspire. I have gained a huge amount of knowledge from this board in little over a weak. Yes I make mistakes, of course I do, I've only been interested in improving my style for the last year or so, but people are warm and friendly, and help out, whenever they can, in a manner which makes me want to post more.
As an example, I found the APS first, but didn't join there, I came here, as it was similar to other forums I post at, friendly and informal.
As a result I have bought a style guide (never had one before) recommended by God, and continue to learn many new words each day. As for the post archives and Google searches, I do love to read through them, If I want a reference guide I'll buy one - and have!
Limiting a post to 30 would ruin the flow of conversations and I for one, would probably leave, but then again, maybe that is the intention sometimes, I don't know; withhold the information from those less fortunate? That surely, is no ones intention, but imposing any power, is exactly what that achieves.
This, of course, is all in my opinion. I just thought I would air my views as a newbie to style, language and this forum!
This post may be full of grammatical errors, style errors, and probably a few spelling mistakes, but I wrote it with passion, and want to leave it as-is. Please feel free to correct though.
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Post by Vadim on Jun 12, 2008 8:45:19 GMT
I could set up a strictly moderated board easily enough And now I have. I see that's a popular board!
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Post by Geoff on Jun 12, 2008 9:53:47 GMT
I'm pleased that you've you've enjoyed it here, Vadim. So have I.
I'm not saying that we should repeat what we did on the APS, I just think that the threads wander a bit too much and cover subjects that, perhaps, would be better dealt with in separate threads. It has happened that in the middle of a series of posts on one subject, there is an isolated post relating to some earlier topic. It's not impossible to handle such intermingling of ideas if one visits at least once a day, but wouldn't it be better to 'stay on topic' as much as possible and avoid lengthy wandering threads?
I don't profess to have a solution for the problem(s) I see. What happened on the APS was that board's solution to a similar situation and a solution necessitated as much by the 250 maximum number of posts the board could handle.
They're my thoughts. I'll step down now and take cover from the flak.
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 12, 2008 12:50:26 GMT
No, don't stop, Geoff, your thoughts are valuable.
The ecology of any board is a strange and unpredictable thing, and tinkering tends to have unpredictable results.
Nevertheless, I do think you have a point. "Not-the-APS" is not a name I can change easily now, and nor do I want to. It shows the board's genesis, and is a suitable tribute to all the work and publicity that John H and John R (respectively) put into the APS.
But the names of the topics could maybe do with refining, and I'm happy to try for a while to see if we could run a loosely moderated general chat board (this one) and a tightly moderated language board (the new, currently empty, one).
I'll change the names to more accurately reflect this.
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Post by Vadim on Jun 12, 2008 14:56:22 GMT
I have one suggestion for you new board, Paul. It might be a good idea to put the new, tightly moderated board, as a main board on the home page. Putting it as a sub-board doesn't seem to work to me.
The home page could therefore, have something along-the-lines of:
General Discussion FAQ *Insert name for your "tightly moderated" board here*
If you see what I mean?
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Post by Dave M on Jun 12, 2008 15:21:17 GMT
Forgive him, Vadim, for he knows what he does!
(I think Paul is allowing the strict board since it was requested, but expects to show through its having little use (one for Sue there!) that it is not actually what people prefer.)
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Post by Sue M-V on Jun 12, 2008 16:21:02 GMT
Oooh, ta, Dave!
I think that Geoff may have a point, but that we "oldies" are perfectly happy here because we visit often.
I can imagine that if I were a new visitor, or even when I return from my summer hols, I shall be rather perplexed as to what to read, and have no idea of what I might find there!
I'm hoping you'll all go away for a couple of months in a couple of weeks' time, so that I won't have to flounder so much in August!
Sue
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Post by Paul Doherty on Jun 12, 2008 17:27:33 GMT
Well, I'm not quite as cynical as you think, Dave! I do see Geoff's (and Sue's) point, and I can understand that a newcomer who just wants to pose a quick question might be a bit overwhelmed. So I've provided the roped-off VIP suite to see if it attracts any business; security will be on hand to eject any troublemakers.
This board is actually very much simpler (fewer sub-boards etc) than most, so people who've used other boards are unlikely to find it too strange. But I accept the APS used to attract people who had probably never used a board before, and were unfamiliar with the concept, and I'd like to make life as easy for them as possible.
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